Felix 2.0>3.0 dual upgrade - any good stories ? + questions

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agentmulder
Posts: 49
Joined: Sat May 10, 2014 2:54 am

Felix 2.0>3.0 dual upgrade - any good stories ? + questions

Post by agentmulder » Sat May 10, 2014 3:38 am

Hello all,

Upon hearing about this upgrade I was/am keen to upgrade, but in lieu of any reviews online thought I'd have a look around the forums for info. Unfortunately (and predictably) the forums have attracted a lot of people trying to solve problems, so the discussion revolves not so much about the positives.

Keen to know:

- anyone rate the kit well ?
- anyone have zero issues with it ?
- how much travel do you lose on the axis due to having two extruders ?

My primary reason for wanting a dual extruder is the not so great results from parts using PLA support, my understanding is that with a dual system one extruder can be used to lay soluble support material for the PLA in the other. After the print the part can be soaked in a solvent (water?) and 'released' with much less/no residue left behind...

- is that correct ?

- also what other uses can a dual extruder be used for ?


(aside from two colours which doesn't excite me so much :shock: )

Hugues
Posts: 270
Joined: Thu Apr 04, 2013 5:36 pm

Post by Hugues » Sat May 10, 2014 8:43 pm

You can indeed used the second extruder with a water soluble filament used for support.

I'm also trying to print the inside of my part with PLA and ABS for the shell with the second extruder, then I can soften the ABS in acetone vapor to get a smooth finish.

I should post my results soon hopefully.
Hugues
Regards from Switzerland

agentmulder
Posts: 49
Joined: Sat May 10, 2014 2:54 am

Post by agentmulder » Thu Jun 12, 2014 5:37 am

crickets chirping...

:shock:

any good stories to tell ?

Capella_Ben
Posts: 88
Joined: Thu Aug 08, 2013 10:01 am
Location: Queensland, Australia

Post by Capella_Ben » Mon Jun 30, 2014 11:28 am

I'd be interested to hear about this as well. However I tend to think that dual extruders are twice the trouble...
Ben
..
Felix 3.0 (upgraded from 2.0)

agentmulder
Posts: 49
Joined: Sat May 10, 2014 2:54 am

Post by agentmulder » Mon Jun 30, 2014 11:43 am

I had a look at one in Melbourne in store a few weeks ago. Looks good, I guess, but jeez I reckon some of the parts if I were to do it would just sit uninstalled, less hassle ! Think of all the cables to play with again (including that dang Z-Limit situation ;) )

pozzy
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2013 3:12 pm

Post by pozzy » Mon Jun 30, 2014 10:39 pm

Hi,

I've just done the upgrade v2 to v3, it took 9 hours including the stripping down of my v2. I have to say the quality of the prints are far superior to the v2. I thought the v2 prints were excellent, however v3 prints are superior (imo). I stayed with single extruder first, but have ordered the second one (I understand this is still a little bit experimental at the moment). I also ditched routing the cables in the framework, I was never keen on it so I opted for a length of ducting similar to this:

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=cable ... B557%3B503

It makes changing cables much easier.

I'm printing on kapton tape, managed to get some 300mm wide 30m long for £30, easy to apply, just spray bed lightly with some water and a dash of soap. Love the new bed, very flat and no screw-heads to be seen or tape lines now! All in all worth the cash, on the v2 I had some serious issues with the hothead jamming, not had one jam and I've already racked up some 16 hours of print time, most runs taking on average 2-3 hours.

Hope this helps.

Pozzy :D
Glen...

Felix 2.0 -> 3.0 (Single then Dual Extruder's) LCD
3DR RepRap Delta Printer (Own Build)
Simplify3D
Solidworks

undergroundsurf
Posts: 16
Joined: Wed Jul 31, 2013 6:07 pm
Location: Switzerland

Post by undergroundsurf » Mon Jul 14, 2014 4:30 pm

I'd recommend you to upgrade your printer at least with the injection moded parts. It took me a whole day but it's worth the time because of the anti vibration capability. Less vibrations -> better print quality and less noise. You also don't have to worry anymore about a broken fan an molten printhead parts.. ;) The only disadvantage i could find is the fact, that the timing belt from the y axis is allways moving up und down while beeing draged. I didn't have that before.
In my eyes, dual extrusion isn't a software problem, it's clearly a hardware problem. There's a good reason why stratasys is moving each nozzle up and down individually. Due to the gravity (our lecturer of material science told me that) it's impossible to prevent the filament from oozing, so you have to lift the nozzle, use one instad of two (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZzyo8ZGEIM) or build a valve into them.

Dreide
Posts: 176
Joined: Sun Sep 29, 2013 12:32 am
Location: Lausanne, Switzerland

Post by Dreide » Tue Jul 15, 2014 9:19 am

undergroundsurf wrote:Less vibrations -> better print quality and less noise.
True, but do you have any hard evidence that the molded parts actually help to reduce vibration? I noticed that the molded parts are somewhat softer than the PLA parts, but when it comes to vibrations, there are so many other factors which I suppose have much more impact on vibrations (belt tension, motor currents, part geometry, printing speed).
In terms of accuracy of fit and rigidness of the assembly (especially the extruder block), I am not so sure whether going for molded parts was a step in the right direction (at least with the material being used).
undergroundsurf wrote:You also don't have to worry anymore about a broken fan an molten printhead parts.. ;)
True. The only advantage, I think - but only an issue if you want to print hot (ABS etc.) or want to leave your printer in the car on a sunny day.
undergroundsurf wrote:The only disadvantage i could find is the fact, that the timing belt from the y axis is allways moving up und down while beeing draged. I didn't have that before.
I observed the same thing (with two Felix 3.0, actually). For one thing, the molded parts are not really straight (also the end stop arm of the X carriage has a twist which makes it difficult for it to hit the opto at the correct position); but even if there were straight, looking the construction and alignment of the Y parts, I wonder how the belt could ever be in the correct vertical position. The way the belt is and can be mounted, it is just too low.
undergroundsurf wrote:In my eyes, dual extrusion isn't a software problem, it's clearly a hardware problem. There's a good reason why stratasys is moving each nozzle up and down individually. Due to the gravity (our lecturer of material science told me that) it's impossible to prevent the filament from oozing, so you have to lift the nozzle, use one instad of two (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZzyo8ZGEIM) or build a valve into them.
Sure, lifting the unused nozzle helps, but that does not prevent it from oozing, so how far would you have to lift? I think software could help with the problems a lot more than it does right now. Even with the unused nozzle being lifted it would help, for example, to wipe off the nozzle on purpose when it has not been used for too long. I also wonder whether it would help to have repeated but small retractions. It is not so clear to me, however, what retraction really does and why retracting as much as e.g. 4mm (especially when retracting fast) would be of any help - but this is off topic.
The best thing would be to put the nozzle away as long as it is not used - very much like they did with the color pens in the old plotters. Then you could have a whole bunch of them, plus have a direct feed system with just one extrusion motor, fan, etc. (light weight) - who is in ;)?
Felix 2.0->3.0dual * Repetier (host+firmware) * KISSlicer Pro, Simplify3D * Cubify Design

neep
Posts: 19
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2015 12:45 pm

Post by neep » Sun Jan 11, 2015 6:43 pm

Yep, either a mixing valve or a retraction mechanism for the unused extruder would be best. In my case, it's not just oozing from the second extruder that's a problem, but when doing fast prints where the filament warps even slightly up, the second extruder always starts hitting the print even when not used at all. I would love to be able to take the extruder up with gcode. Even considering removing it altogether for now, until a solution has been thought up.

At this point I wouldn't bother with the dual extruder on the Felix 3.0. I'm still a beginner though, so don't take my judgement too seriously.

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