Printing ABS on the Felix v3

Discussions about firmware/slicing software, tweaks and settings
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Eli-Audio
Posts: 30
Joined: Wed Dec 17, 2014 10:23 pm

Printing ABS on the Felix v3

Post by Eli-Audio » Tue Dec 30, 2014 8:46 pm

I'm trying to print ABS (Leapfrog Maxx ABS) on my Felix v3. I'v read that the system is setup for PLA, what do I need to change besides the temperatures?

I can't really find other setting, also are there any Slic3r settings for the printer, because my (MAC) repeater doesn't show any...

Eli-Audio
Posts: 30
Joined: Wed Dec 17, 2014 10:23 pm

Post by Eli-Audio » Wed Dec 31, 2014 7:46 pm

So to start this topic on my own (although I did find another topic concerning the Slic3r setup) I've started using Slic3er instead of Skeinforge because I can easily see what the layer thickness and travel speed will be for a project. So I've printed this guitar pick, small object, nothing to worry about if this one fails. I first sliced it with Skeinforge in "high quality no support" even if I go to the settings I can't find the layer thickness, there's just to much information there for a newby. The print enden up not so good, layers coming of each other and so on... So I made my first Slic3r profile, did a quick printer and fillament setup, and that was an instant improvement!

So next I will be experimenting with extrusion temperatures and bed temperatures, to see what best suits my ABS material.

neep
Posts: 19
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2015 12:45 pm

Post by neep » Mon Jan 05, 2015 6:55 pm

I'm quite interested in the outcome of your experiments. I ordered a 3.0 and one of the things I want to do is to create certain parts for automobiles which need to be able to withstand higher temps, so ABS is the material of choice. Let me know how you go.

Hugues
Posts: 270
Joined: Thu Apr 04, 2013 5:36 pm

Post by Hugues » Mon Jan 05, 2015 8:18 pm

besides temperature settings, what you'll need to print ABS is... a lot of patience and perseverance !

I myself gave up on ABS last year, it shrinks way too much to adhere consistently print after print to the bed. And if you get that part right, the upper layers will still shrink.

But please do make your own trials. There is always something to learn, and maybe you'll find success.

By the way, there are many types of filament out there now which have mechanical properties as good as ABS, if not better. Even plain PLA is not that bad compared to ABS. Check proto-pasta.com
Hugues
Regards from Switzerland

Eli-Audio
Posts: 30
Joined: Wed Dec 17, 2014 10:23 pm

Post by Eli-Audio » Mon Jan 05, 2015 9:41 pm

Well, I'm a week past my first trial and error with ABS, and somehow I've gotten into a no fail zone... Ok, if you lay the parts upside down like I did last night you end up with spaghetti when you wake up, but I've been printing 24/7 the last three day without any big problems...

For the first layer to stick "ABS Slurry" and insulation the heated bed were far better solutions then to just switch slicers!!

What I did:
I mixed some faulty ABS prints (or extruded filament, or just cut from your fresh stash) with some acetone, the ABS will dissolve in the acetone, and form a "slurry" kind off milky substance that can be brushed/painted/poured/wathervered on the printing bed. (better do this when the bed is cold, the acetone will evaporate to quickly to get an even layer when the bed is hot!)

In combination with a 100 degrees celsius heated print bed, I got 99% of my prints to stick firmly onto the bed!!

To get the bed unto 100 degrees celsius I had to provide some kind is isolation/insulation (can never tell the difference between the two). I found this plastic foam that I got when I ordered a bunch of Lundahl Transformers (I use them for Audio balancing/impedance conversion, check out Eli-Audio.com) This was used for packaging, and is about 15mm thick, it can withstand the 100 degrees celsius easily without deforming/melting/burning. I read about people using cardboard, but I do not recommend that, it feels like to big a risk...

So I got the bed up to 104 degrees celsius one time, probably when the heating in my room was at full! This can only mean that building/buying a full enclosure for the printer will definitely be a big improvement! You can buy a 19 inch 16 unit server rack, insu...iso...wathever-late it and you'll have a fine temperature controlled room for printing instead of the garage/basement/your kids room... I just need to get myself to do that next and get out of the kitchen with my workshop...

These "improvements" slash "hacks" made a big difference, but I found that switching to windows (regretfully!) was a big improvement too!! CuraEngine is a way faster slicer then Slic3r and Skeinforge both! and the only advantage over Skeinfroge that Slic3r for mac had was the fact that horizontal layering (outer shells) were printed from the inside out, so a basis for the outer layer was in place before it was laid out...

In windows Sfact (Skeinforge), Slic3r and CuraEngine have all the presets that Slic3r lacks on mac... ok, my macbook pro retina of around $5000 is way faster then my windows tablet pc of around 300 bucks, but it get's the job done!!

For now, these are my three rules of thumb, in order of importance, for ABS printing on the Felix V3
1 - Get some Acetone and mix yourself a slurry cocktail!
2 - Insulate/isolate/trap the heat under your printing bed!!
3 - Design your parts on your way prettier Apple computer, but leave it to an old skool windows PC to communicate with your printer!

Post Scriptum:
2.5: Build/Buy/Steal a full enclosure, just get your PSU and driver board outside...
4 - As Hugues said, patience and perseverance are gold!
5 - Now start printing that MK.44 hand cannon, you know you want it!
7.8 - I'm sorry I took this much forum space...

Eli-Audio
Posts: 30
Joined: Wed Dec 17, 2014 10:23 pm

Post by Eli-Audio » Tue Jan 06, 2015 9:18 pm

One day in the future we are still fighting the Felix V4 extruders!

So this Peek part in the extruder seems to be a problem. I was printing the Mk.44 Hand Cannon overnight and I woke up with the software finishing the job, but the filament stuck in the extruder! I've been reading up on extruder jams, and can't say I was surprised when I found the Peek to be halfway clogged with ABS so only half of the filament gets through, and only when applied with force into the extruder...

Having said this, I am already installing my third extruder hot-end in this printer in a week! The first week I've got this thing too!!

I'm looking into replacing the extruder hot end with an E3D extruder, all metal, and with the option of the new 0.8mm extruder tip for printing Woodfill!!

artohautala
Posts: 13
Joined: Sat May 17, 2014 3:19 pm

Post by artohautala » Thu Feb 19, 2015 4:31 pm

Eli-Audio wrote:Well, I'm a week past my first trial and error with ABS, and somehow I've gotten into a no fail zone... Ok, if you lay the parts upside down like I did last night you end up with spaghetti when you wake up, but I've been printing 24/7 the last three day without any big problems...

For the first layer to stick "ABS Slurry" and insulation the heated bed were far better solutions then to just switch slicers!!

What I did:
I mixed some faulty ABS prints (or extruded filament, or just cut from your fresh stash) with some acetone, the ABS will dissolve in the acetone, and form a "slurry" kind off milky substance that can be brushed/painted/poured/wathervered on the printing bed. (better do this when the bed is cold, the acetone will evaporate to quickly to get an even layer when the bed is hot!)

In combination with a 100 degrees celsius heated print bed, I got 99% of my prints to stick firmly onto the bed!!

To get the bed unto 100 degrees celsius I had to provide some kind is isolation/insulation (can never tell the difference between the two). I found this plastic foam that I got when I ordered a bunch of Lundahl Transformers (I use them for Audio balancing/impedance conversion, check out Eli-Audio.com) This was used for packaging, and is about 15mm thick, it can withstand the 100 degrees celsius easily without deforming/melting/burning. I read about people using cardboard, but I do not recommend that, it feels like to big a risk...

So I got the bed up to 104 degrees celsius one time, probably when the heating in my room was at full! This can only mean that building/buying a full enclosure for the printer will definitely be a big improvement! You can buy a 19 inch 16 unit server rack, insu...iso...wathever-late it and you'll have a fine temperature controlled room for printing instead of the garage/basement/your kids room... I just need to get myself to do that next and get out of the kitchen with my workshop...

These "improvements" slash "hacks" made a big difference, but I found that switching to windows (regretfully!) was a big improvement too!! CuraEngine is a way faster slicer then Slic3r and Skeinforge both! and the only advantage over Skeinfroge that Slic3r for mac had was the fact that horizontal layering (outer shells) were printed from the inside out, so a basis for the outer layer was in place before it was laid out...

In windows Sfact (Skeinforge), Slic3r and CuraEngine have all the presets that Slic3r lacks on mac... ok, my macbook pro retina of around $5000 is way faster then my windows tablet pc of around 300 bucks, but it get's the job done!!

For now, these are my three rules of thumb, in order of importance, for ABS printing on the Felix V3
1 - Get some Acetone and mix yourself a slurry cocktail!
2 - Insulate/isolate/trap the heat under your printing bed!!
3 - Design your parts on your way prettier Apple computer, but leave it to an old skool windows PC to communicate with your printer!

Post Scriptum:
2.5: Build/Buy/Steal a full enclosure, just get your PSU and driver board outside...
4 - As Hugues said, patience and perseverance are gold!
5 - Now start printing that MK.44 hand cannon, you know you want it!
7.8 - I'm sorry I took this much forum space...
Hi ok,
I found this to be very good and simple solution to print ABS filament:
printbed is insulated from the bottom adhesive insulator
used in cars to insulate sounds and heat ...
I glued 2 mm thick glass plate edges only loctite power epoxy metal (it stands +150 degs celsius)
then use common glue stick for papers to print area (I'm using UHU stick) it is easy to use...
... sometimes use acetone to roll out that very thin glue layer ...

works fine no brobs!

friendly regards
-arto-

frankjoke
Posts: 150
Joined: Sat Dec 28, 2013 6:07 pm

Post by frankjoke » Thu Feb 19, 2015 9:52 pm

I am using this http://www.amazon.de/BuildTak-3D-Print- ... B00O17XW9O which I put on a glassplate from a pictureframe (3€ in shop) which I clip on the bed.
I isolated the bed on the bottom with some ironing board cover, it makes now 106° but I only go with 100° but without any glue or so.

With PLA I can do without heating the bed.

The bed must be leveled and I sqeeze 20% more material into 1st layer using mainly Kisslicer.

p.s.: For PLA you can use also only http://www.amazon.de/Avery-Zweckform-J8 ... B0002S4CRM, I have another glass plate covered with this as well. It is not so useful in ABS because on high temperature it tends to peel of the glass (instead peeling off the ABS). For smaller ABS parts it's OK as well.

Anyhow, I believe tried everything before but luckily don't need anything else anymore!

fesch
Posts: 35
Joined: Fri Dec 05, 2014 11:14 pm
Location: Luxembourg
Contact:

Post by fesch » Fri Feb 20, 2015 10:13 pm

How to you configure Kisslicer to use 20% more material into the first layer? I user Kisslicer too but cannot find such an option :-/

frankjoke
Posts: 150
Joined: Sat Dec 28, 2013 6:07 pm

Post by frankjoke » Sat Feb 21, 2015 10:12 pm

In printer settings I use Bed roughness of 0.03 (I mainly print 0.15) and in Z-Offset I use -0.03.

This means first layer is printed at 0.15 but because of first parameter 20% more feed will be used to compensate for bed roughness.

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